[MG] Crowdsourcing the History of eDemocracy

Pablo Segundo Garcia pablo2garcia at gmail.com
Wed May 15 15:41:19 EDT 2013

Very interesting historical listing. I would like to link it in the
wiki of Partido de Internet and e2d-international. Could you post a
stable link for that? or shall we copy the list at some point to some
other place?

I would also point to agoravoting.com, and partidodeinternet.es

I guess you have seen this other listing on softwares:

At some point we could use this documentation for some nice pages in
the wikipedia which I find a little bit lacking of.

2013/5/15 Pietro Speroni di Fenizio <metagovernment at pietrosperoni.it>:
> Hi Michael,
> thanks for the thorough post.
> Very useful. I will heavily refer to it,
> and add it in the bibliography.
> Best Regards,
> Pietro
> ----------
> Dr. Pietro Speroni di Fenizio,
> Home Page: http://www.pietrosperoni.it
> Mobile (Italy): +39 (345) 4542069
> Home Address:
> Pietro Speroni di Fenizio
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> 3350-099 Portugal
> On 15 May 2013 13:36, Michael Allan <mike at zelea.com> wrote:
>> Pietro and Ed,
>> Pietro asked:
>> > > In particular can someone trace back the exact author and the date
>> > > of the idea that voting should not be linked with a specific
>> > > platform? Although this intuition has not yet reached full
>> > > maturation I think it deserves a place as one of the ideas that
>> > > might come up in the future.
>> Ed answered:
>> > > I believe Thomas von der Elbe came up with free range voting:
>> > > Michael can confirm and give a date.
>> Mark Murphy speaks of aggregation in his 2008 essay [1].  That same
>> year he wrote in an email, "Anybody can cast their vote on the issue,
>> again by publishing a POSH-enhanced Web page." [2] He seems to have
>> wanted the votes to be free of central servers and instead in the
>> hands of self-publishing voters.  That's a beautiful idea.  The
>> servers become just aggregators, or what today I'd call "vote mirrors"
>> - except they're tied to a single standard for the vote form [3].
>> That's one problem.  Another is that few people would actually be
>> inclined to host their own votes, most would instead come to rely on
>> vote-servers.  So it's impractical as envisioned.
>> Thomas's first post to Metagov (May 2009) takes a different approach.
>> He's trying to get the vote-servers that already exist and already
>> host votes to cooperate [4].  At one point in the thread, I suggest
>> vote pooling [5].  But pooling embraces centralization, which is the
>> opposite of putting the vote in the voter's hands; it's unattractive.
>> The key to the problem turns out to be translation across vote forms.
>> That's the basis of vote mirroring, which Thomas invented in December
>> 2009 [6].  It effectively puts the *form* of the vote in the voter's
>> hands because he/she can now choose any vote-server or voting method,
>> including (if need be) his/her own.
>> So Murphy was the first to go chasing after platform freedom (that I
>> know of), but Thomas was the first to actually catch it.
>> Pietro asked:
>> > What were the differences between Votorola and Candiwi?
>> Both support distributed drafting based on diff/patch tools.  The main
>> differences are probably in the voting and discussion media.  But I
>> don't remember Candiwi's design for those.
>> > I know Votorola has a nice tree structure of changes to a page. Has
>> > this been implemented or it is only theorethical (i.e. should I put
>> > it down as theorethical result)
>> What we have are tree structures of *extant* differences, as opposed
>> to historical changes.  For example, here's Frank's draft:
>> http://zelea.com/w/User:Frank-FlippityNet/Sys/p/sandbox
>> Here's the current difference vs. his voter Georgina:
>> http://zelea.com:8080/v/w/D?a=5339&b=6054&s
>> And here's the social tree structure that relates Georgina and Frank:
>> http://zelea.com:8080/v/w/Votespace?p=Sys!p!sandbox&u=Frank-FlippityNet
>> That's not a realistic example, of course, and not very instructive.
>> The practice docs indexed on the home page are more instructive:
>> http://zelea.com/project/votorola/home.html
>> > Then Free Range Voting (this was how it was called), Michael starts
>> > speaking about it on the 22/12/2009.
>> >
>> > Now what is its relation with Votorola?
>> Free-range voting is the primary use case for vote mirroring.  It's
>> shown here: (see FRV) http://zelea.com/project/outcast/_overview.xht
>> The three vote-servers in that cluster (V) are supplied by different
>> providers.  Users may freely range from server to server (vote form to
>> vote form); they can never be captured by a dominant provider, even
>> one that had 99.9% of the users.  The relation with Votorola is that
>> we might be one of the providers.  That would be unlikely without vote
>> mirroring, because it would be a dog-eat-dog race to the bottom.
>> Mike
>>  [1] Mark Murphy. 2008. The “killer app” of public participation. In
>>      Rebooting America. Edited by Allison Fine, Micah L. Sifrey, Andrew
>>      Rasiej and Joshua Levy. Personal Democracy
>>      Press. http://rebooting.personaldemocracy.com/node/5499
>>  [2]
>> http://metagovernment.org/pipermail/start_metagovernment.org/2009-February/001195.html
>>  [3] Mark Murphy. 2007. xDebate formats specification, version
>>      0.1.  Not published.
>>      It's a Semantic HTML (POSH) schemata for federated debate on
>>      political issues.
>>  [4]
>> http://metagovernment.org/pipermail/start_metagovernment.org/2009-May/001404.html
>>  [5]
>> http://metagovernment.org/pipermail/start_metagovernment.org/2009-May/001517.html
>>  [6] http://zelea.com/w/User:ThomasvonderElbe_GmxDe/Vote_mirroring
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/votorola/ZgW5iZenrn0
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email: pablo2garcia at gmail.com
skype: pablo2all ; twitter: @pablo2garcia

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