[MG] Striking at the root

alex at twister11.de alex at twister11.de
Sat Feb 18 18:23:43 EST 2012

I forgot something ;-)

what about responsibility? if decisions are made and executed (as long as a
decision requires execution) - who will be responsible?
the collective? single persons? nobody? ..a group? - maybe offshoring
decisions or marketing decisions or whatever else will affect the
collective, even though the decisions was one which wasnt made by consensus?
will there be something like a insurance that is granted by a collective
(company) to protect individuals from some of the consequences of their
decisions that cant be handled by the individual or group that made the
if people have to take responsibility of all decisions they make, they
might not make risky decisions and follow a cover-my-ass-strategy ...if
they have no responsibility at all, there might be a lot of free riders...
so what mechanisms allow the flexibility to enable the right mix of this?
maybe there are concepts that render these questions obsolet or maybe
concepts who automatically find the best solutions....

On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 12:13 AM, <alex at twister11.de> wrote:

> Votorola has the difference Bridge and i hope, that it's possible to start
> a thread of discussion for every DIFF ..these discussions should enable
> antithesis and analysis and stuff... and in the end hopefully the
> difference is resolved and if not, at least participants of the discussions
> know why.
> Thats why i told conseo that i think its useful to add a button to every
> DIFF in the horizontal difference bridge layout where you could directly
> discuss that specific DIFF.
> by the way - the link you gave me is a starting point, but its too vague.
> there are different levels of urgency and importance of decisions.
> like ... buying pencils by using money or credibility that belongs to a
> group
> like ... buying a big machine or spending ressources to build a new
> product ...a new house... whatever
> like ... creating guidelines
> like ... creating general rules
> like ... ...
> u know, the point is, some decisions should be made by independent
> persons, some decisions should only be made by consensus
> if everything is decided via consensus, it creates information overflow
> and wastes a lot of time, if nothing is decided by consensus, it creates a
> lot of negative side effects or chaos.
> there are alternative approaches to creating alternativ companys
> like the "agile movement" or like "sociocracy" or "holacracy" or elements
> like "karma points" from open source developement and many other things.
> what about a group that puts in a lot of effort to create something. maybe
> there is another group next to that group that created that something maybe
> even in the group that created something, there are experts and people who
> are new or who only put in a little effort... what rules to use to
> distribute the earnings?
> what about new people who want to join that group? who decides? only team
> members? the whole company? only experts who know?
> and what about "fire-ing people"? who is in charge? who should be allowed
> to make that decision? the collective? only the people who directly worked
> with the person under consideration? ... and what about long term assets?
> who owns them? everyone? what about someone who joins the company ...will
> he get an equal share? what if he leaves only a couple of days later?
> ...how much does you opinion count if you are new? (compared to people who
> are long term members and already have put in a lot of effort to build the
> status quo?)
> everyone needs information to participate... which kind of information...
> do they choose? does the collective decide by consensus who gets which
> information?
> what about legal requirements? maybe experts work on it and offer it in an
> easy to use way... (like creative commons)
> what about tax rules?
> what about marketing? some are experts, some are not... should everyone
> have a voice when it comes to marketing? wont that require a lot of time
> investment by a lot of people?
> what kind of decisions can markting make of their own? (like buing pencils
> vs. creating big marketing campaigns?) how to decide what kind of "rights"
> people have in a democratic fashion that could be changed or readjusted
> easily by other members of the group when the status quo creates problems.
> so time should be considered and importance too, where importance has to
> do with the impact that decisions would have... how many people will be
> affected and how many ressources will be required. ...what about opt-in and
> opt-out mechanisms and when to use which? when are things mandatory and
> when are they optional?
> ...what requires consensus and what requires or allows a coalition of
> willing?
> where is space for process or concept improvement/evaluation ... how to
> incorporate lessons learned?
> so many questions ....
> On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Ned Conner <npconner at earthlink.net>wrote:
>> **
>> Ned> Here is a very brief discussion that outlines a possible programming
>> project: CIDME<http://www.metagovernment.org/wiki/Collaborative_Governance_v2.0#Collaborating_To_Build_Consensus>.
>> Is this the sort of thing you are looking for?
>>  On 2/18/2012 1:17 PM, alex at twister11.de wrote:
>> Yeah whatever - i don't care if it's a game or for real world examples...
>> :-)
>> what i'm interested in is concepts for tools and processes and how they
>> might be solved. Thats na necessity for real world practice as its for a
>> game that might be played.
>> So if you/we have a game, i might take the mechanics to try them in the
>> field, while u create a game and find players that play it...
>> ...but before we can play the game or use the mechanics in the real world
>> we actually NEED the mechanics :)
>> And thats what i'm curious about. Before you can program a game, you have
>> to think about what you want to program..
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> --
> ______________________
> Alexander Praetorius
> ICQ - 8201955
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> Diaspora / Geraspora - serapath / Alex P
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Alexander Praetorius
ICQ - 8201955
Skype - alexander.praetorius
Facebook - Alexander Praetorius
Diaspora / Geraspora - serapath / Alex P
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